Dallas-Fort Worth Real Estate Investor Club

Question about LLC

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  • 26 Mar 2015 12:46 PM
    Message # 3270627

    I am a new investor and am buying my first property for my newly created LLC.  The bank loan officer told me that they could not put the title in the name of the LLC only in my name.  She told me that I could then deed the property over to the LLC and that they would have no problem with that.  My agent thinks that the title company will have a problem with that.  Any advice on this problem.

  • 26 Mar 2015 10:46 PM
    Reply # 3271180 on 3270627
    Robin Carriger (Administrator)

    I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not offering official legal advice in my following comments.  My perspective is that the lender doesn't want you to be insulated by the protections you might otherwise have if the property were titled in an LLC, and, for similar reasons, they likely won't make a loan to the LLC either.  If you deed the property to your LLC after you purchase it in your name, you might be triggering the "due on sale" clause in your note and/or deed of trust which would allow your lender to, at their discretion, call the note immediately due and payable.  At any rate, a title company will likely be used when you initially purchase the property, but you might not choose to use one to deed the property to your LLC should you decide that's what you want to do.  If you use a title company to deed the property to your LLC, they might or might not mention any issues to you.  You just want to be sure the title is still insured at the end of the day.  This is a huge topic, so... I'm just hitting a couple of high points for you.  Welcome to the game!

    Thanks,

    Robin

    Last modified: 26 Mar 2015 10:48 PM | Robin Carriger (Administrator)
  • 26 Mar 2015 11:18 PM
    Reply # 3271184 on 3270627

    Thand for your help Robin.

  • 27 Mar 2015 6:43 AM
    Reply # 3271481 on 3270627
    Deleted user

    Hi Michael,

    Congrats on your first deal!  I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice....

    I agree with everything Robin said but would like to add two additional thoughts.  

    1. In my admittedly limited experience the lender is the sticking point for deeding into an LLC, not the title company, so I'm not sure I'd agree with your agent.  The good news is, there is nothing stopping you from asking your title company up front.  If the title company won't do the deal the way you want, try finding a more investor-friendly title company who will. 
    2. Your lender has already indicated that they have no problem with you deeding the property into your LLC after closing.  On the surface that might seem to answer Robin's concerns about triggering Due On Sale.  However, it's important to understand that if the loan papers do not document that the lender has formally waived their Due On Sale rights, they probably retain those legal rights and could still call the note due whenever they want, as could anyone who buys the loan.

    There are many investors who will not do any deal where Due On Sale is a risk.  There are other investors who are comfortable having Due On Sale risks with every deal they make.  If you aren't already very familiar with them, I would recommend you talk with a real estate lawyer about balancing the Due On Sale risks with the risks of not having your property in an LLC, so that you can structure this deal and move it forward with risk management that you are comfortable with.

    Good luck, and congratulations again on your first deal!

    Last modified: 27 Mar 2015 6:46 AM | Deleted user
  • 28 Mar 2015 12:29 PM
    Reply # 3272718 on 3270627
    Deleted user

    I would contact an attorney before doing anything else. You want to make sure that you understand and are comfortable with the risks... Personally I protect myself to the max, but other investors find that to be too difficult/expensive etc. it's ultimately up to you but supplement the advice of other investors with your own studies..I'll give you my (Texas) lawyers information if you're interested.

    Good luck! 

    Brian R. Baker, MBA

    New England Housing Partners LLC / Texas Housing Partners LLC

    Brian@texashousingpartners.com

    Last modified: 28 Mar 2015 12:33 PM | Deleted user
  • 29 Mar 2015 3:00 AM
    Reply # 3273170 on 3270627
    Deleted user

    LLC isn't a cure all, you're still going to be liable since you're sole owner of the LLC.  I just put properties in my name and get a $1M umbrella per prop.  LLC is a false sense of security in my opinion and not worth the cost and hoops you need to jump thru to make it work.

  • 29 Mar 2015 9:42 AM
    Reply # 3273281 on 3270627
    Deleted user


    Justin is right, insofar as specific behaviors need to happen in order to maintain the integrity of the protection an LLC provides.  I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that one good example of this is the need to keep corporate funds and personal funds separate--if you use LLC funds to pay personal expenses or vice versa, your LLC may not do much to protect you or your family's personal assets if you're sued.

    I take a very different conclusion from this, however.  Rather than give up and say its too much effort, my non-legal recommendation is to learn what you need to do to maintain the integrity of the LLC, and then do it.

    One lawyer specializing in asset protection said it best:  insurance and corporate asset protection are different things and a wise investor uses both to minimize exposure to severe financial risk.

    Here are two links for more information:

       http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-basics-30163.html

       http://www.lonestarlandlaw.com/LLC-Formation_in_texas.html

    David

    PS:  I've never heard of a case where the number of owners in an LLC had any bearing on how effective the LLC was in offering asset protection.  Justin, can you please provide a reference so we can do more research?

  • 29 Mar 2015 9:31 PM
    Reply # 3273816 on 3270627
    Robin Carriger (Administrator)

    According to my memory of what Real Estate Attorney, Milt Colegrove, has shared with us in the past, Justin's opinion above is not correct in Texas.  The fact that you have a single-member LLC does not give you less legal protection than if you had more members.

  • 30 Mar 2015 8:54 AM
    Reply # 3274435 on 3270627

    In many states, the single member LLC has been attacked by the courts to the point that the LLC provides little or no protection. That isn't the case in Texas. Both the entity protection offered by an LLC and the charging order protection offered to the member or members of an LLC are still in valid. In fact, there is a proposed bill in the Texas legislature with its intent to codify the State of Texas's position on single member LLCs. Since the bill's intent is to just clarify an existing statute, as opposed to creating new law, my contact believes the bill has a great chance of becoming law. 

    To the comment that LLC's are oversold, good insurance coverage certainly may lessen the chances of you not being personally sued; however, that insurance doesn't protect you if you are personally sued for some other reason,  a judgment is obtained against you and the creditor now wants to take your properties to satisfy the judgment. If those properties were in an LLC or series LLC, the creditor can only obtain a charging order, not ownership in the properties. 

    Though I am an attorney, this is not meant as legal advice but only my opinion of the topic being discussed. 

  • 30 Mar 2015 9:29 PM
    Reply # 3275312 on 3270627

    Why will your lender not make a loan to your LLC? As to the title company, if you were to purchase the property in your personal name, once you close, the title company is pretty much done with it. Why would they be involved in you deeding it to the LLC afterwards? (Unless, of course, you opened it as another transaction with them, and they balk. In which case, just call up another title company.)

    Last modified: 30 Mar 2015 9:37 PM | Dwayne Modisette
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